Talk:Inheritance Tier List

I saw that Katarina has no description. I thought I could suggest one.


 * A Red Mage with pretty good Attack and Speed. Very good offensively.
 * Mantains a good resistance nonetheless.
 * Low HP and Atrocious Defense.


 * In regards to write ups, they are currently being reworked by the Tier List volunteers. Should the new write-up still be unsatisfactory, feel free to leave an additional feedback. -Elaeagnifolia (talk) 19:02, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I think Summer Elise could be S or S+ due to her stats being similar to Delthea.--X the smasher (talk) 06:11, 29 July 2017 (UTC)X the smasher

Naturally Blue dragons have a distinct advantage, excepting Julia's tome, however it's not clear as to if this chart takes into account that due to inheritance, any dragon can be any colour. Is this the case or no? - Chazn2 (talk) 03:59, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Not entirely sure what's being suggested here, but dragons cannot become "any color" since color is tied to each hero regardless of skill inheritance. For example, Nowi will stay a Blue dragon regardless of the weapon she inherits.
 * - Elaeagnifolia (talk)Elaeagnifolia
 * Excellent answer, thank you for clearing up my confusion. Chazn2 (talk) 03:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Have you guys considered making a Cavalry and Flier Tier list, there are quite a few of them and it would be cool to see Tier list for 4 man teams of Cavalry/Fliers. Eventually Dragons and Armored but so far there are only a few of those. 97.100.251.116 07:30, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
 * It has been considered; however, the maintenance of multiple tier lists including the current two would be a substantial increase of effort and labor. It may be considered again in the future, but for now there are no immediate plans for this.
 * - Elaeagnifolia (talk)Elaeagnifolia
 * What about a way to filter by movement? - Chazn2 (talk) 22:33, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Some of the textbox ratings are left not updated since the table itself.

Sharena: Still listed as B, rated A+

Lukas: Still listed as A, rated A+

Hinata: Still listed as B, rated A

CorrinM: Still listed as A, rated A+ - Hansenxli (talk) 6:23, 21 June 2107 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks for reporting it!


 * Saschb (talk) 15:36, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

After encountering numerous instances of Niles in the Tempest, he seems a lot less useless than I originally thought. According to the criteria, I think his rating should be around an A~A+ since he's very adept at fighting all magic units. With his decent speed and a resistance special, he's capable of taking out many units with armor a little bit on the lower side.


 * First of all, tempest units have inflated stats, so they're not representative of player-built units. Second, Niles' defenses mean he can only really take hits of magic damage, and his attack is low enough that he has to rely on his special to deal damage, which means he still loses to many well-built mages in arena settings, not even his speed solves this issue as he still gets doubled by several mages. There are other units that are better equipped to fill his role, which makes B a fitting tier, with its description "This tier consists of sub-optimal units, usually due to poor stat spreads. Units in this tier can still be viable and useful given enough investment, but may not be the most efficient unit to use for a specific role.".


 * Saschb (talk) 11:28, 22 June 2017 (UTC)


 * They still demonstrate the capabilities of units to a certain extent. I revisted his page to take a look at his stats before I said anything lol. Especially in comparison to George or Klein, I still think Niles could do with a better rating. With just +Spd/-Def, Life and death, and his standard kit he's good to go against other mages. I don't think he needs much investment to be effective and I certainly don't see many mages doubling 42 speed without bow breaker.


 * Even with +Spd/-Def, Killer Bow+, and Life and Death 3, +Atk Brave Bow+ achieves more kills and similar builds on Rebecca/Faye/Gordin get even more (relevant) kills. Despite Niles' Spd and Res, he can't reliably bait-kill mages in arena. The issue isn't necessarily that Niles is useless, he's just outperformed by the other archers. I have, however brought up your concerns. Saschb (talk) 12:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

How did Ephraim manage to maintain his S rating? Donnel, Sharena, and Camus are arguably better than him. He is nowhere near Hinoka's level. His weapon's unique effect hasn't been a significant factor in a long time. (Edit - and Eirika) 97.100.251.116 06:38, 27 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi there. I spoke with the Tier List volunteers about your concerns and while yes, they agree that Hinoka is more powerful, Ephraim is still better than those in the tiers below him. They disagree though with your opinion that his weapon is no longer significant though. His legendary weapon effect negates the need for a Rally buff, and on top of that, he and Eirika are the only two who can provide triple buffs (Hone, Seal, Weapon) without even needing Rally, making them fantastic buff support units. If Sharena/Donnel want to become triple stat buffers, they will have to use their Assist slot to run Rally, which makes them less flexible than Ephraim.


 * If you start comparing stats, all three of their stat lines allow them to successfully achieve their roles as physical red walls with offensive presence. However, Ephraim has his 16 Mt Legendary weapon and the additional buffing effect which already puts him above Donnel. While Sharena may also have a legendary weapon, since she's a starter unit, she is also locked to a neutral nature.


 * As for Camus, he has a similar stat line as the aforementioned melee infantry units but with Distant Counter. Unfortunately, he cannot maximize the potential of Distant Counter due to the ranged units he will face (most likely mages) still being able to kill him because of his low Res.


 * Having said all that, the Tier List group is doing a lot of revising for the next update, so the ranks are still subject to change. If you have any additional concerns or comments, let me know and I'll forward them to the Tier List team for further discussion.


 * - Elaeagnifolia (talk) 17:34, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

So, i've noticed despite being out for a month and half as of writing, Camus still does not have a description for rating. He is also stuck in A+, however most people agree he's at the very least S if not S+ materiel. In addition, descriptions are also still lacking for the summer and new mystery units. Plz fix these asap


 * In regards to write ups, they are currently being reworked by the Tier List volunteers. -Elaeagnifolia (talk) 19:02, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I would like to point out some concerns I have about the current Tier List:
 * Defense Ploy: I agree that the ploy skills are amazing utility passives, I myself use them a lot, but I believe the mechanics of their effect are too volatile to be taken as evaluative aspects. Altough their perpetual range makes much easier to proc them, it can still be bypassed in many ways,even when carried by the highly mobile fliers and cavalry. A smart player can avoid the debuff range and with the help of a Dancer or positioning skills a unit and its allies can effectively move through the battlefield in a way that ploy skills won't affect the team's performance.Also, ranged units, that can attack diagonally, can evade the cross range with even less difficulty especially, as aforementioned, with the help of a positioning support.Furthermore, in the case of Defense/Resistance/Attack Ploy,even if a unit can proc them its effect can be heavily counteracted by an opposing buff,neutralizing 4 points of the -5 debuff(or completely nullifying it in case of movement-exclusive buffs).

The shaky nature of Defense Ploy, and Ploy skills in general, as an evaluative aspect becomes more evident when compared with other features analyzed when considering changing the rank of a unit:Stats and Ivs,as a example, exert a very steady influence on a unit's performance. For illustration: Effie's high attack and solid defenses will always have meaningful impact on her matchups. Even more subjective points, such as serving as a meta counter are subjected to fewer variables since, if a unit is evaluated by her ability to check a certain powerful meta threat, it means that in the vast majority of scenarios it'll be able to deal with said threat effectively. Other passives and skills that are taken in to account when deliberating the tier of a unit are also comparatively more stable in its effects on matchups and less likely to fail. A exemple include the now a bit obsolete, Triangle Adept & -Raven tomes,which, until recently,consistently allowed its bearer to perform the intended role of a dual counter.

It's also worth mentioning that, while there's indeed very feasible scenarios where a ploy skill bumps a unit's performance, it could be,arguably,regarded as a bit forced attempt to improve said unit's potential since the time and effort the player will put in trying to activate a ploy skill to win some additional matchups could be invested in to another hero with the natural capacity to do what the ploy skill' bearer is attempting to do.

Being concise, what I'm trying to point out is that defense ploy and other ploy skills are indeed very powerful as a complement passives, but as evaluative aspects their usage brings out too many variables to the table to safely change a unit rank solely on merit of it. I compare them, in a grossly way of course, to specials, as they may or may not affect a unit's overall performance.


 * Sharena's ranking: Sharena's ranking on the list and on the detailed notes do not match. I my oppinion, there are solid arguments to justify her position on both places though: Her solid stat spread gives a notable survivability and offensive presence to not only counter swords unit effectively but to act as a bulky support,which, for me, is enough to put her on the A+ tier, however the lack of Ivs and nature tuning is really detrimental,which can safely be used to put her on the A- tier.


 * Sonya's ranking:I see Sonya's stat spread as a middle ground between Soren and Julia as advantageous instead of detrimental. Altough Julia gets the upper hand as a meta counter, as she can grab some addional extreme matchups, I believe Sonya can reach similar results in that situations with some buffs and a correct skill set. Also when equipping similar skills at similiar ivs natures, her added matchups while initiating and tanking are very similar in number to Julia's,since Sonya has a sliglty better enemy phase performance while Julia leads on the player phase. Also, her better speed and Dark Excalibut gives her more independence and flexibility when multiples scenarios are taken in to account, as she can retain her role as a magic counter and run some more offensively-oriented builds simultaneously. For thar reasons I believe they should be in the same tier. As a side note, I also believe Sonya is more future-proof than Julia, should the meta suffers a revampage, but that shouldn't be taking into consideration in the tier list anyway.


 * Merric's ranking: Since there are so many lance fliers on high-tiers, shouldn't Merric's ranking be a bit higher?


 * Terminology: I think sometimes different terms and adjectives are used interchangeably in similar situations,I believe adopting a more standardized terminology could help the Tier List, and the wiki as well, become more understandable to new players.--Bentermuler (talk) 01:13, 29 August 2017 (UTC)